‘Game Change’: The New Rules of Brand Engagement at SXSW 2025

The panel “Game Change: The New Rules of Brand Engagement” at SXSW 2025 brought together marketing leaders to discuss how brands are rewriting their playbooks for the digital, socially-driven era. Moderated by Digiday’s Kristina Monllos, the panel featured Han Wen, Chief Digital Marketing Officer for L’Oréal USA, and Josh Feldman, Chief Marketing Officer for NBCUniversal’s Advertising & Partnerships division.

Throughout the conversation, they shared insights on topics ranging from influencer marketing and performance metrics to cultural moments and new brand-platform collaborations. The recurring theme: successful brand engagement today requires balancing short-term performance with long-term brand building, cultural relevance, and authenticity. Below, we’re breaking down the key takeaways from the session.

Influencer Marketing and Authenticity

Both panelists agreed that influencer marketing has become a cornerstone of brand engagement: “We don’t really have a brand, I don’t think any brand, without garnering love from influencers today,” said Wen.

However, leveraging influencers effectively means empowering their creativity rather than scripting it. Wen cautioned that “the worst thing that you can do with the influencer community today is to treat them like a paid channel… ‘Here’s my product, here’s what I want you to say’ […] that is really the kiss of death.”

In other words, brands should not brief influencers the same way they brief ad agencies; overly prescriptive direction undermines the authenticity that makes an influencer’s voice powerful. Instead, influencers should be seen both as a vehicle for a brand message and as a valuable feedback channel from the community

Wen emphasized that each creator has a unique voice that cuts through content clutter to reach audiences—“so you better listen to what they have to say and how they want to talk about” your brand. Authentic partnerships mean trusting creators to convey the brand in their own relatable style. The panel’s advice: collaborate with influencers as creative partners, provide them with brand context and freedom, and resist the urge to micromanage. By doing so, brands earn credibility with audiences who increasingly demand authenticity.

Earned Media Value and Performance Measurement

An underlying insight from the panel illuminated how to measure the impact of brand engagements, especially as marketing budgets face scrutiny. Monllos noted that many marketers have been pressured to prove ROI with abundant digital KPIs, leading to an over-rotation toward lower-funnel performance marketing, especiallyin recent years. “There’s been a lot of focus on performance marketing over brand marketing,” she observed, describing an industry effort to rebalance the two. Wen agreed, warning that an excessive focus on short-term metrics can ultimately backfire. If a brand only chases quick conversion numbers, “sooner or later, you’re going to realize that you’ve run out of customers.”

In other words, purely transactional marketing neglects the pipeline of future consumers and the wider audience engagement that keeps a brand relevant.

Feldman reinforced that sentiment, reminding marketers that “brand love is still very important. Brand equity is still very important,” even if they’re harder to quantify than clicks or immediate sales. He noted that some advertisers had “swayed too far” toward quick wins at the expense of brand-building, and cautioned that “just because you can get quick data points doesn’t mean that’s the best thing for the long term of your brand.”

To counter this, both Wen and Feldman advocated for expanding success metrics beyond the immediate ROI. One reason is the earned media value generated from big creative campaigns—the free press, social buzz and word-of-mouth that a culturally resonant activation can generate. Those impacts may not show up in a dashboard the next day, but they contribute greatly to brand momentum.

Wen described how L’Oréal evaluates big investments like a splashy TV or event integration not just on short-term sales, but on the awareness and goodwill they create. For example, Kiehl’s (a L’Oréal brand) ran its first-ever TV ad during the Oscars broadcast, aiming for a PR splash and cultural relevance. The campaign—a playful spot created with Ryan Reynolds’ Maximum Effort agency—was part of a 360° activation around the Oscars and ultimately drove a “100%” lift in sales of the featured product (a facial sunscreen), according to Wen.

It also became one of the most talked-about moments from an Oscars night that had its highest viewership in years. Those kinds of outcomes illustrate the earned media payoff of bold brand plays. Wen admitted these large-scale efforts require faith: “There really isn’t a turn-off [switch] when you do [big] TV spots correctly as part of the moment,” and if you make them truly entertaining, the returns will come.

The takeaway for marketers is to balance performance and brand marketing rather than pitting them against each other. Short-term metrics remain important, but they should be viewed alongside measures of brand health, earned media, and cultural impact. As Feldman put it, a well-rounded strategy is essential; brands must feed both the lower funnel and the upper funnel.

In practice, that means budgeting for innovative campaigns that generate buzz and affinity—even if the immediate conversion is hard to trace. Over time, those efforts expand the top of the funnel, creating new fans who eventually become customers.

Brand Love and Long-View Engagement

On Building “brand love”—an emotional connection that keeps consumers coming back—Feldman noted that many advertisers are rediscovering the value of brand equity after chasing quick results. Middle-funnel behaviors like search interest and consideration still matter, and they are fueled by a strong brand story. “We have to be smart,” he said, about balancing immediate data with the long-term health of the brand. In today’s landscape, that often means investing in cultural relevance and community rather than just broadcasting marketing messages. “Part of what marketers are trying to crack right now is this need to be part of culture,” Monllos noted, summing up the challenge.

Wen and Feldman suggested that nurturing brand love requires a long-view approach – thinking in terms of years, not weeks. Wen shared that at L’Oréal, she is encouraging her teams to shift from campaign-based, quarter-by-quarter KPIs to a more patient strategy of community-building. “We start to think about building community, building authenticity with our audiences […] in a much more longitudinal way,” Wen said. “It’s not about, ‘Oh, this is our KPI for next quarter, therefore let’s find this type of advertising.’ We’re able to think in multi-year time horizons,” she continued.

For Wen, the goal is to ensure L’Oréal’s brands stay top of mind for consumers by earning trust over time. That means focusing on meaningful content and engagement that may not immediately drive sales, but will plant seeds for the future. Wen described this as an “earned-first” mindset, prioritizing genuine connections and word-of-mouth, which then have a doubling effect and render paid efforts more effective in the long run.

One way to cultivate brand love is to empower internal creative teams to take smart risks that resonate within culture. Wen provided a clear example of this, referring to a recent internal initiative: when brainstorming for the upcoming SNL 50 partnership (more on that below), she challenged each brand team to pitch why their brand should be part of the celebration. This exercise pushed the marketers to think beyond the status quo. “It is no longer about ‘I say whatever I want to say and [the audience is] forced to watch it,’” she said of the mindset shift.

Her teams realized that simply having a big budget wasn’t enough – “it’s not just because we show up with a check that we can be a part of this amazing activation,” she noted.

To earn a place in consumers’ hearts, brands need to put forward ideas that enrich the content and communities people care about. Wen noted that this process “turned the relationship [with media partners] on its head” and effectively ended “the era of bringing mediocre messages to the marketplace and forcing people to watch.” In its place is a new ethos: only high-quality, relevant creative gets invited into the cultural conversation.

Both Feldman and Wen also acknowledged that guarding a legacy brand’s equity while keeping it fresh is a delicate balance. Wen, who oversees marketing for brands that in some cases are over a century old, said there can be a “lot of caution” internally about maintaining brand heritage. But that must be weighed against the need to stay culturally present. The solution is to articulate clear brand values and then permit creative teams to experiment within those guardrails. If the brand’s core is respected, taking calculated risks in execution can pay off by generating new waves of fandom. Ultimately, brand love is built over time through consistent, meaningful engagement, which requires marketers to adopt a long-term mindset even as they deliver on short-term needs.

Social Listening and Community Insight

Another theme that emerged was the importance of listening to consumers – truly listening, in real time, through social media and community channels. “Your next marketing brief might just be hiding in your social media comments,” noted Wen, underscoring how consumer conversations can inspire strategy. She asserted that social platforms are a powerful two-way connection: brands that aren’t actively social listening are “missing out on the answer to many questions [they] might be asking in […] meetings.” Both Wen and Feldman encouraged marketers to treat communities not just as audiences to market to, but as collaborators and insight generators.

Wen also shared that L’Oréal has invested heavily in tools and talent for social listening and trend analysis, but technology alone isn’t enough—organizational agility is key.

Wen admitted that currently, “not enough” of those consumer insights directly inform content creation. Her aspiration is to more closely integrate the teams that monitor online conversations with the teams developing campaigns. In fact, Wen said she wishes those were “the same team,” so that when a trend or consumer sentiment is spotted, the brand can respond or adapt “before I build out anything,” rather than after the fact.

“We’re shortening the distance within our organization between that insight and action,” she explained, describing ongoing changes to make L’Oréal’s marketing more responsive. This involves breaking down silos and reducing layers of approval so that ideas inspired by the community can be executed quickly. Wen even tracks internal metrics like how empowered teams feel to act on insights, as a way to gauge if the org structure is enabling speed at scale,.

Authenticity was highlighted as a guiding principle in deciding which social trends a brand should engage with, highlighting that just because something is viral doesn’t mean a brand should jump on it. Referencing the death of Duolingo’s mascot Duo via Cybertruck, she noted it would be “totally inauthentic” for an unrelated brand like YSL to chime in on a random trending joke that has nothing to do with its identity. “Being authentic means [knowing] what is authentic to your brand.” she continued.

L’Oréal’s beauty brands, for instance, carefully choose which cultural conversations to participate in, based on whether there’s a true overlap with their audience (a “Venn diagram” of the trend and the brand, as Wen described it). When that overlap exists naturally, that’s a moment to lean in: “When you find that […] oh, this is a trend, this is my brand, and I’m going to chime in—that’s a magical moment,” said Wen. But if it’s not a fit, smart brands will sit it out rather than come off as forced. This approach ensures that when a brand does engage socially, it feels genuine and adds value.

Feldman echoed that knowing your audience and their culture is paramount, especially for brands that haven’t yet achieved household-name status. Not every company will be spontaneously parodied on Saturday Night Live (as L’Oréal was – an SNL sketch about a mascara went viral organically, an example Feldman lauded as an example of the brand’s cultural clout. For smaller brands, he advised, the focus should be on the culture of their fan communities and knowing their audiences: “It’s not about building culture all the time, it’s about making sure your brand is going along where the culture of your fans and users are.”

Tapping into niche communities and listening to those passionate consumers can reveal what matters to them. That insight should guide brand storytelling and engagement strategies. In short, social listening isn’t just a buzzword; it’s an everyday practice of meeting your audience where they are, hearing what they care about, and responding in an authentic and timely way.

‘SNL50’ Activations and Monocultural Moments

Perhaps the most illuminating case study discussed was NBCUniversal and L’Oréal’s collaboration around “SNL50”—the 50th anniversary of Saturday Night Live. Feldman and Wen pulled back the curtain on how they approached this monocultural moment (a rare event that millions experience simultaneously). Their experience underscored the power of cultural events for brands as well as the innovative approaches now required to activate around them.

Feldman set the stage by noting that in today’s fragmented media environment, shared cultural moments are especially valuable. Despite the rise of on-demand viewing and personalized feeds, “there is nothing that can still replace the level of awareness that you can generate in these big monoculture moments in terms of reach,” Wen said of tentpole live events. When everyone is talking about the same thing at the same time—whether the Super Bowl, the Oscars, or a major TV milestone—brands have a unique opportunity to create an outsized impact. However, as Wen added, it only works if the brand’s involvement adds to the experience and doesn’t detract or “gatekeep” it.

In the past, the default was a 30-second ad spot with a celebrity pitch, but audiences today expect more creativity and relevance. This is why L’Oréal, as Wen noted, relies on partners like NBCU, who can deliver these massive cultural moments and collaborate on integrations that feel organic.

For SNL’s 50th anniversary, NBCUniversal completely rewrote the sponsorship playbook. Feldman revealed that two years in advance, they obtained permission from SNL’s creators (including Lorne Michaels) to do something unprecedented: invite multiple brand partners to integrate with the show throughout the season. Rather than simply selling ad packages, NBCU launched a “reverse RFP” process, asking interested brands to pitch them on why they would be the right fit for the partnership, focusing on how the brand would co-market and co-create with SNL. Crucially, every idea had to be “comedy-led first” to honor SNL’s creative integrity. In other words, any brand integration had to originate from genuine humor and SNL-style content, not from a marketing brief. Brands also had to prove they could “let go a little bit” of control and trust the SNL team’s expertise with their audience.

After a year-long vetting of ideas, NBCU selected five sponsors—including L’Oréal (with its Maybelline and CeraVe brands), alongside the likes of T-Mobile, Volkswagen and others. Each was given a unique “lane” to integrate. For instance, one brand might revive an iconic SNL sketch, another might work with current cast members.

L’Oréal’s CeraVe, as Wen recounted, wanted to launch a new anti-dandruff hair product in a way that stayed true to its science-based, dermatologist-backed image while still being funny. The solution was an SNL sketch featuring cast members (including the famously big-haired comedian Sarah Sherman) in a spoof hair-metal band called “Naumore Dandruf.”

The comedy bit highlighted CeraVe’s product benefit (a ceramide formula for scalp health) in a tongue-in-cheek way, complete with a real dermatologist playing the drummer.

Wen loved that the SNL writers “went nuts” with the concept once given the basic product facts. It struck the perfect balance between SNL’s irreverent tone and CeraVe’s brand DNA—an outcome only possible because L’Oréal trusted the creators.

This partnership model paid dividends. Feldman noted that Maybelline, L’Oréal’s other brand partner, not only got a Love Island USA integration (where contestants used Maybelline lipstick in a kissing contest), but layered on a shoppable commerce element during the broadcast. Viewers could instantly purchase the lipstick via on-screen prompts, marrying brand awareness with direct sales. The result was a double-digit lift in e-commerce for the featured products.

“When you do branding really well, the commerce piece follows,” Wen observed, pointing to the seamless funnel from exposure to purchase in this activation. It was a clear demonstration that brand marketing and performance can work hand-in-hand: a creative integration drove brand buzz and immediate sales conversions.

Ultimately, the SNL50 collaborations showcased how far brand engagements have evolved from the days of simple sponsorship. Feldman emphasized that NBCUniversal treated this as a true partnership, even inviting marketers into their creative process. “We were looking for partners that were going to roll up their sleeves […] every step of the way,” he said, because SNL’s legacy was at stake. Wen appreciated this collaborative gauntlet; it challenged her team to deliver some of their most “unconventional ideas” ever and gave them license to explore and push boundaries in a way day-to-day campaigns often don’t. By all accounts, it energized the marketers. “It allowed them to feel free to take some risks,” Wen said, noting that cultivating a culture of creative courage was one of the most rewarding outcomes of the process.

The Evolving Relationship Between Brands and Media Platforms

Underpinning many of these insights is a broader shift in how brands and media platforms work together. The traditional lines between “advertiser” and “media owner” are blurring as both sides strive to engage audiences who demand more relevance. Feldman remarked that “there certainly is no one playbook” for advertising partnerships now. Each brand comes to NBCUniversal with different objectives, so his team increasingly takes a consultative approach, listening to what the advertiser is trying to achieve and then crafting a bespoke solution.

That solution might be a premium video series, a custom content piece, a social-first campaign, an interactive commerce integration, or often a mix of formats. The key is flexibility and co-creation. NBCU’s role has expanded from selling ad spots to actively partnering on brand storytelling spanning across TV, digital, streaming, and live experiences.

Feldman gave the example of NBCU’s recent moves to “democratize” access to its high-profile content for advertisers of all sizes. Big cultural moments like the Olympics or SNL used to be accessible only to the largest advertisers with the deepest pockets. But with streaming and advanced ad tech, that’s changing. In the 2024 Olympics coverage, NBCU for the first time enabled programmatic ad buys on the national broadcast, which increased the number of advertisers by 70% by bringing in many smaller brands. They’ve also launched an entire team dedicated to small and medium businesses and rolled out flexible products and pricing to include them. “Gone are the days of, ‘we have to price everything at a certain level’ and price everyone out, we need to democratize it,” Feldman said. With targeted streaming inventory, “there’s really no reason…you would only rely on social media anymore” to reach your audience.

In other words, premium video and cultural content are no longer an elite domain. Any size brand can partake if the platform makes it accessible. For media companies, this opens new revenue. For smaller brands, it’s a chance to play on the big stage and gain wider exposure.

The relationship is reciprocal: media platforms are also leaning into brand IP when it aligns with their content. Feldman described NBCU’s mindset as “lending out our IP to other marketers so they can build their stories off of it” is a far cry from the old church-and-state separation of programming and advertising. Whether it’s a Bravo reality show or a news brand like CNBC, Feldman noted, it’s imperative to gauge what level of creative flexibility makes sense depending on the context.

The goal is to strike the right balance where both the fans and the brand benefit. “We allow brands to sort of take the ride and help us influence what that authenticity is,” he explained, describing how external brands can even shape content to some degree if it enhances the fan experience. This represents a new paradigm of trust and collaboration: brands entrust platforms with their image (as L’Oréal did with SNL), and platforms entrust brands to contribute value to their content ecosystem.

Finally, the panel highlighted that none of this works without empowered teams and diverse talent on the marketing side. Feldman and Wen both credited their teams’ “diversity of thinking” and passion for fandoms with driving a lot of these breakthrough ideas.

Great ideas, both panelists noted, can come from anywhere—a junior staffer deeply involved in a niche community might spark the next big campaign. The role of leaders is to set the vision (e.g., focus on community, authenticity, cultural moments) and then give teams the freedom to innovate. “Great ideas come from everywhere, and you have no idea where it’s going to come from,” said Feldman, stressing the importance of a collaborative culture across divisions. Wen added that events like SXSW are invaluable for swapping inspiration with peers from other industries and hearing challenges from the audience. Both showed an openness to continue learning—fitting, as the “new rules” of brand engagement are still being written in real time.

SXSW 2025’s “Game Change: The New Rules of Brand Engagement” session painted a picture of brand marketing that is more fluid, creative, and long-term oriented than ever. Influencer partnerships must be authentic and two-way. Performance metrics must be balanced with patience and brand storytelling. Cultural moments offer unmatched impact, but only if brands show up in genuine ways. Social listening and community insights are informing agile content creation. And the old advertiser–publisher relationship is evolving into true collaboration, with shared risk and reward. As marketers navigate these new rules, the panelists advised keeping the consumer’s experience at the center. Those brands that can deliver real value—whether entertainment, utility, or community—in a culturally relevant manner will earn not just attention, but love. And in the game of modern brand engagement, brand love is the endgame.